Hallowed be thy name
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Ya luché bastante sobre estas cosas con cuñados de todo el mundo. Paso. Saco unas cervezas y hablamos del tiempo.
UHD Blu-ray y HDR. Lanzamientos y ediciones
- Autor Atreyub
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Ya luché bastante sobre estas cosas con cuñados de todo el mundo. Paso. Saco unas cervezas y hablamos del tiempo.
Sí que sabes 
Por suerte no me pasa con mi cuñado, pero sí con el de otros...
Por suerte no me pasa con mi cuñado, pero sí con el de otros...
Hallowed be thy name
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No era cuñado, pero es que entra perfectamente en el grupo de "cuñados enterados". Tiene todas las características de esa especie.
Otra que tuve recientemente fue con otro igual hablando de los híbridos de Toyota. El colega decía que era muy pronto para comprar uno de esos porque es una tecnología nueva y tal. Yo le dije que llevaban casi 20 años funcionando en Japón y que son fiables de pelotas. El insistió en que no, que no se quién en Radio Marca había dicho que era una tecnología nueva y que no.
OK, ¿tomamos otra?
Otra que tuve recientemente fue con otro igual hablando de los híbridos de Toyota. El colega decía que era muy pronto para comprar uno de esos porque es una tecnología nueva y tal. Yo le dije que llevaban casi 20 años funcionando en Japón y que son fiables de pelotas. El insistió en que no, que no se quién en Radio Marca había dicho que era una tecnología nueva y que no.
OK, ¿tomamos otra?
A veces sinceramente da pereza tratar de hablar con los que van de enteradillos. Porque aunque les razones todo, seguirán siendo como el aceite y el agua. Nunca vas a ganar, y lo sabes. Entonces la mejor opción es la de Hallowed X-D
Yo a veces envidio al resto de mortales que se la suda la calidad de imagen. En serio. Tener que andar buscando lo mejor de lo mejor para luego...¿que?. La vida pasa. Es así.
Yo a veces envidio al resto de mortales que se la suda la calidad de imagen. En serio. Tener que andar buscando lo mejor de lo mejor para luego...¿que?. La vida pasa. Es así.
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El término medio existe y es deseable. Perseguir la perfección es un camino sin fin lleno de frustraciones.
calibrador
Giouco Piano
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Ya ya. Bien feliz que soy con mi JVC que ya ronda los 4 años y el darbee que me vendiste tú. Se ve como DIOS. A disfrutar hasta que explote. 
Dr_X
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The BDA discuss the latest on Ultra HD Blu-ray
We talk to the BDA and discover the new 4K disc format will finally launch in January
So we have been eagerly following the development of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray over the last few years, not only because it might be the only way to actually watch 4K content without being at the mercy of broadband speeds but also because it offers the chance to watch films with a level of quality that is almost comparable to the cinema. The development of UHD Blu-ray has taken a long time but it has gone hand-in-hand with improvements to display technology and changes to the television standards. It wasn't until IFA last year that confirmation came of an actual timetable for the new format's release. Since then there have been a number of announcements this year, starting with the finalising of the specifications back in May and more recently the beginning of the licensing process.
At IFA this year we not only had the announcement of the Samsung UBD-K8500, the world's first Ultra HD Blu-ray player, but also news of the first nine titles to be released by Twentieth Century Fox. The studio even plans to release future films on UHD Blu-ray day and date with the regular Blu-ray release. Whilst at IFA, we had the chance to sit down with Dan Schinasi the Promotions Chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) and talk about the latest developments in Ultra HD Blu-ray.
Could you start by just giving us an update on the current status of Ultra HD Blu-ray?
Well if you look at the numbers there is significant growth forecast for Ultra HD TVs and also a lot of larger screen sizes migrating over to 4K, which sets up Ultra HD Blu-ray to be the vehicle to deliver 4K to UHD displays. The licensing has started, which is a significant milestone.
So the specs have all been finalised.
Yes the specs are all finalised and the licensing has begun. The lawyers have written all their agreements, the logos have been agreed.
Is the licensing with the manufacturers, the studios or both?
Both. In fact there’s a lot of licensing because you also have mastering the content, verifiers and so on.
I think people sometimes forget that creating a new format is a complex process.
You’re right, it’s not just a bit of silicone and a plastic disc, there are replicators and an entire supply chain of getting the blank discs and all that has to be performed before things can happen. And we need the creative community too. Fox is ready and they’ve made some bold statements but other studios need to follow in their footsteps, it’s not just about one studio.
In terms of studio support are they all on board.
Yes they are, literally since all the major studios are board members of the BDA. Not only are the studios behind UHD Blu-ray but they are active contributors. The BDA meets quarterly, with smaller meetings in between and the studios are very active participants.
At one point there was a fear that studios might bypass physical media and go straight to digital delivery.
It’s interesting you should bring that up because along with all the advanced features that UHD Blu-ray offers, this is a physical format but with digital extensions. So whilst streaming is nice and instant and on demand, it eats a lot of bandwidth. In the US Netflix advise on their website 25Mbps for UHD and I don’t know about the speeds in Europe, it may depend on the country, but that’s a challenge for some, even in the US. It also isn’t just the speed that you get but it’s also the sustained speed, so you might get it in the afternoon but not in the evening.
The other interesting aspect is that the UHD Alliance and the studios have got together to set a quality benchmark for 4K. You probably know about all the capabilities of Blu-ray but once you start layering on the HDR, the higher bit depth, the larger colour space and the higher frame rates, then it becomes even more challenging to distribute. It won’t get less challenging although obviously speeds will increase. However with a UHD Blu-ray it’s a repeatable, constant experience and every time you put the disc in you know exactly what you’re going to get. Then there’s the digital extensions which are nice also, you don’t have to be in your living room. You can do an export and you can watch on another device.
Does the digital bridge allow you to watch the film in 4K elsewhere in the house or on another device?
It’s in the works, so right now the Blu-ray will allow you to take a 1080p copy and store it on the hard drive of your machine or some other local storage, that you can watch anywhere distributed throughout the house. The Ultra HD version of that is currently being worked on but right now it’s HD only on Blu-ray copy, whilst Blu-ray export is a version that you can move to tablets and mobile devices. It’s the best of both worlds with digital extensions.
So the new format will be fully backwards compatible with regular Blu-ray.
The player is backwards compatible, so the player will play regular Blu-ray discs and the new Ultra HD Blu-ray discs and it will work with a Full HD TV, an SDR 4K TV and an HDR 4K TV. But obviously the new discs won’t play in a regular Blu-ray player.
I understand that there won’t be any support for 3D in 4K.
No but you will be able to play Full HD 3D Blu-rays, although that will be a function of how the manufacturer decides to implement the features but a manufacturer can make a player that supports Ultra HD playback, 2D Full HD playback and 3D Full HD playback. So for example Samsung’s new UBD-K8500 will play all of those.
I know that the specs support up to BT2020 but what will the initial Ultra HD discs use?
Well the studios use DCI/P3 in the cinema and that ports over very easily to Ultra HD Blu-ray but if you’re wondering why we support such a wide colour space, this is a format that we want to last for a long time. We can always push it down but it’s good to have that bigger container and displays will eventually reach wider colour gamuts.
Physically the disc will look identical to regular Blu-ray, just with a different capacity and the content will be HEVC encoded of course and the transfer rate is a lot quicker because you’re sending a lot of data. We were talking about 4K streaming at 25Mbps but with UHD Blu-ray it will be100Mbps, so it will take a while for streaming to catch up.
The digital bridge is an option and you probably read in the press announcements that Samsung are working with Fox and they’re both committed to the digital bridge. When content is actually offered with the digital bridge is a different question because there are licensing servers that have to be implemented. However Fox are committed to doing it and Samsung are committed to offering it on their player.
Since the players will be compatible with regular Blu-ray that gives you access to a library of about 10,000 different discs and also it can support all the different audio formats. It could also support future audio formats because a lot of them just pass through and the AV receiver will do the decoding. So if newer audio formats come along they can just pass through.
Are you still optimistic of having players in stores by Christmas?
It was announced yesterday (3rd of September) that at least in Europe it will be in the first quarter and whilst we’d love to launch earlier in the US, there’s an entire ecosystem that has to be put in place. It’s like a big ship that takes time to turn but you’ll see a tremendous amount of Ultra HD Blu-ray activity at CES in January, with players and discs launching very soon afterwards.
Will Ultra HD Blu-ray have regional coding?
It will have the same regions as regular Blu-ray which is A, B or C, although it’s up to the studio whether they use any regional coding. I believe it varies from studio to studio and release to release. So I believe it will be exactly the same as regular Blu-ray.
Great, so the specs are agreed, the licensing has begun and we can expect a big launch at CES.
Yes a very big launch in January but it was great to see that Fox have already announced their intention to release all their future movies on Ultra HD Blu-ray day and date with their regular Blu-rays. In fact we did a demonstration of a side-by-side comparison of Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray for the studios and the results were incredible, they were hugely impressed and gave us their blessing. So we’re ready to go and you can expect more announcements over the next few months.
We talk to the BDA and discover the new 4K disc format will finally launch in January
So we have been eagerly following the development of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray over the last few years, not only because it might be the only way to actually watch 4K content without being at the mercy of broadband speeds but also because it offers the chance to watch films with a level of quality that is almost comparable to the cinema. The development of UHD Blu-ray has taken a long time but it has gone hand-in-hand with improvements to display technology and changes to the television standards. It wasn't until IFA last year that confirmation came of an actual timetable for the new format's release. Since then there have been a number of announcements this year, starting with the finalising of the specifications back in May and more recently the beginning of the licensing process.
At IFA this year we not only had the announcement of the Samsung UBD-K8500, the world's first Ultra HD Blu-ray player, but also news of the first nine titles to be released by Twentieth Century Fox. The studio even plans to release future films on UHD Blu-ray day and date with the regular Blu-ray release. Whilst at IFA, we had the chance to sit down with Dan Schinasi the Promotions Chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) and talk about the latest developments in Ultra HD Blu-ray.
Could you start by just giving us an update on the current status of Ultra HD Blu-ray?
Well if you look at the numbers there is significant growth forecast for Ultra HD TVs and also a lot of larger screen sizes migrating over to 4K, which sets up Ultra HD Blu-ray to be the vehicle to deliver 4K to UHD displays. The licensing has started, which is a significant milestone.
So the specs have all been finalised.
Yes the specs are all finalised and the licensing has begun. The lawyers have written all their agreements, the logos have been agreed.
Is the licensing with the manufacturers, the studios or both?
Both. In fact there’s a lot of licensing because you also have mastering the content, verifiers and so on.
I think people sometimes forget that creating a new format is a complex process.
You’re right, it’s not just a bit of silicone and a plastic disc, there are replicators and an entire supply chain of getting the blank discs and all that has to be performed before things can happen. And we need the creative community too. Fox is ready and they’ve made some bold statements but other studios need to follow in their footsteps, it’s not just about one studio.
In terms of studio support are they all on board.
Yes they are, literally since all the major studios are board members of the BDA. Not only are the studios behind UHD Blu-ray but they are active contributors. The BDA meets quarterly, with smaller meetings in between and the studios are very active participants.
At one point there was a fear that studios might bypass physical media and go straight to digital delivery.
It’s interesting you should bring that up because along with all the advanced features that UHD Blu-ray offers, this is a physical format but with digital extensions. So whilst streaming is nice and instant and on demand, it eats a lot of bandwidth. In the US Netflix advise on their website 25Mbps for UHD and I don’t know about the speeds in Europe, it may depend on the country, but that’s a challenge for some, even in the US. It also isn’t just the speed that you get but it’s also the sustained speed, so you might get it in the afternoon but not in the evening.
The other interesting aspect is that the UHD Alliance and the studios have got together to set a quality benchmark for 4K. You probably know about all the capabilities of Blu-ray but once you start layering on the HDR, the higher bit depth, the larger colour space and the higher frame rates, then it becomes even more challenging to distribute. It won’t get less challenging although obviously speeds will increase. However with a UHD Blu-ray it’s a repeatable, constant experience and every time you put the disc in you know exactly what you’re going to get. Then there’s the digital extensions which are nice also, you don’t have to be in your living room. You can do an export and you can watch on another device.
Does the digital bridge allow you to watch the film in 4K elsewhere in the house or on another device?
It’s in the works, so right now the Blu-ray will allow you to take a 1080p copy and store it on the hard drive of your machine or some other local storage, that you can watch anywhere distributed throughout the house. The Ultra HD version of that is currently being worked on but right now it’s HD only on Blu-ray copy, whilst Blu-ray export is a version that you can move to tablets and mobile devices. It’s the best of both worlds with digital extensions.
So the new format will be fully backwards compatible with regular Blu-ray.
The player is backwards compatible, so the player will play regular Blu-ray discs and the new Ultra HD Blu-ray discs and it will work with a Full HD TV, an SDR 4K TV and an HDR 4K TV. But obviously the new discs won’t play in a regular Blu-ray player.
I understand that there won’t be any support for 3D in 4K.
No but you will be able to play Full HD 3D Blu-rays, although that will be a function of how the manufacturer decides to implement the features but a manufacturer can make a player that supports Ultra HD playback, 2D Full HD playback and 3D Full HD playback. So for example Samsung’s new UBD-K8500 will play all of those.
I know that the specs support up to BT2020 but what will the initial Ultra HD discs use?
Well the studios use DCI/P3 in the cinema and that ports over very easily to Ultra HD Blu-ray but if you’re wondering why we support such a wide colour space, this is a format that we want to last for a long time. We can always push it down but it’s good to have that bigger container and displays will eventually reach wider colour gamuts.
Physically the disc will look identical to regular Blu-ray, just with a different capacity and the content will be HEVC encoded of course and the transfer rate is a lot quicker because you’re sending a lot of data. We were talking about 4K streaming at 25Mbps but with UHD Blu-ray it will be100Mbps, so it will take a while for streaming to catch up.
The digital bridge is an option and you probably read in the press announcements that Samsung are working with Fox and they’re both committed to the digital bridge. When content is actually offered with the digital bridge is a different question because there are licensing servers that have to be implemented. However Fox are committed to doing it and Samsung are committed to offering it on their player.
Since the players will be compatible with regular Blu-ray that gives you access to a library of about 10,000 different discs and also it can support all the different audio formats. It could also support future audio formats because a lot of them just pass through and the AV receiver will do the decoding. So if newer audio formats come along they can just pass through.
Are you still optimistic of having players in stores by Christmas?
It was announced yesterday (3rd of September) that at least in Europe it will be in the first quarter and whilst we’d love to launch earlier in the US, there’s an entire ecosystem that has to be put in place. It’s like a big ship that takes time to turn but you’ll see a tremendous amount of Ultra HD Blu-ray activity at CES in January, with players and discs launching very soon afterwards.
Will Ultra HD Blu-ray have regional coding?
It will have the same regions as regular Blu-ray which is A, B or C, although it’s up to the studio whether they use any regional coding. I believe it varies from studio to studio and release to release. So I believe it will be exactly the same as regular Blu-ray.
Great, so the specs are agreed, the licensing has begun and we can expect a big launch at CES.
Yes a very big launch in January but it was great to see that Fox have already announced their intention to release all their future movies on Ultra HD Blu-ray day and date with their regular Blu-rays. In fact we did a demonstration of a side-by-side comparison of Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray for the studios and the results were incredible, they were hugely impressed and gave us their blessing. So we’re ready to go and you can expect more announcements over the next few months.
Dr_X
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Panasonic will soon begin selling in Japan a Blu-ray Disc player compatible with 4K UltraHD discs, the first such player in the world.
UltraHD, also called 4K, has four times the resolution than conventional high definition and is being promoted hard by major consumer electronics companies as a reason for people to upgrade their TVs.
Until now, the only way to get UltraHD content onto a compatible set was through one of a handful of Internet streaming services. Netflix, Amazon and YouTube provide 4K streams for selected programming.
In May this year, the companies behind Blu-ray Disc finalized the standard for UltraHD content on discs and that's what the Panasonic machine supports.
The DMR-UBZ1 will go on sale on Nov. 15 this year in Japan and was on show on Tuesday at the Ceatec electronics show near Tokyo.
It's larger than some recent Blu-ray Disc players but isn't bigger than most consumer electronics equipment. The player also packs a 3TB hard-disk drive for recording Japanese terrestrial and satellite TV.
It also supports HDR (high-dynamic range) pictures on compatible televisions.
Perhaps as an illustration of the low demand for 4K content at present, Panasonic said it plans to make about 500 of the players per month and will sell them at around 400,000 yen (US$3,327).
Panasonic is also planning to sell some thick HDMI cables, capable of carrying up to 18Gbps. The extra resolution in UltraHD and frame rate of 60 frames per second means it requires much more data than traditional high definition.
The player is the latest in Panasonic's growing family of 4K products. It also sells a television and three models of digital camera that can shoot video at 4K.
Discord Pie
iOS Developer
Con ese post se puede hacer una clase del B1 de inglés. 
dfcjedi
Telarero
Se parece a los primeros BD de Panasonic.
Dr_X
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Sharp también ha presentado su primer reproductor en Japón, que al igual que el Panasonic también es grabador con disco duro interno, aunque apenas hay más detalles ni fecha de lanzamiento:
- Un lecteur Ultra HD Blu-ray présenté aussi chez Sharp
- Anche Sharp presenta un lettore Ultra HD Blu-ray/registratore
Última edición:
Sonix
Miembro habitual
Estoy leyendo en otros foros que el 4K en TV menores de 100 pulgadas es imperceptible para el ser humano, ¿hasta qué punto es cierto eso? ¿alguien ha podido ver 4K en 55 pulgadas? ¿hay diferencias?
Depende de la distancia. Con 55" a dos metros ya ves diferencias entre 1080P y 4K. A partir de los 3 se hace complicado. Por mucho que digan, no se nota. Y obviamente, el microdetalle (a nivel pixel, vamos) solo muy cerca o con pantallas grandes. Por eso yo prefiero para el 4K un proyector. Es ahí donde se verá en toda su grandeza.
Sonix
Miembro habitual
Haber obviamente el 4K me refiero a los pixeles, pero tambien me refiero a los 10 bits de profundidad y tambien la otra modalidad que será opcional es el HDR, supongo que aquí sí habrá diferencias notorias.. como han dicho la BDA los nuevos formatos podran ver 4K sin HDR y con HDR y no todas las peliculas saldran a la venta con HDR.
Es que son cosas diferentes, hombre!. Además, en tu mensaje no dices nada de 10bits ni HDR, dos cosas que pueden estar en Full HD perfectamente, pero que tampoco añaden nada extra que sea reseñable. Si no tienes panel 10bit y conexión HDMI 2.0, no podrás beneficiarte de los degradados sin banding. Y el HDR está de forma natural en cualquier OLED, basta tenerla para darse cuenta del enorme cambio respecto a LCD. Yo no concibo más una tele LCD, en mi casa no piensa entrar ninguna tele que no sea OLED.
Sonix
Miembro habitual
Claro, es como los 12 bits del 4K que no estará en el nuevo formato, es de suponer que los 12 bits iran para el 8K.
Los 35mm cuánto abarca 10 o 12 bits? o depende de la cámara utilizada?
Los 35mm cuánto abarca 10 o 12 bits? o depende de la cámara utilizada?
Repito, ¿para que quieres 12 bits si no tienes displays?. Pues para nada. Que manía de pedir y pedir...vale, ya está, tienes 12 bits en el codec y displays de 12 bits. ¿Y ahora qué?. Pues nada, porque Rec2020 hoy por hoy es una quimera, y no te vas a ver un DCP XYZ 12bits así como así, te lo garantizo.
Monitores 10bits existen, pero valen caros. Mejor agenciarse una tele que tenga panel de 10bits, OLED.
Monitores 10bits existen, pero valen caros. Mejor agenciarse una tele que tenga panel de 10bits, OLED.
Tim
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Este tema lo he visto comentado en algún foro fotográfico. Cualquier cámara réflex almacena las fotos con 14 bits. Pero luego la mayoría de los mortales no tenemos monitores que muestren ni 10 bits. Que está de lujo por lo que te permite a la hora de revelar, pero que no puedas ver ni 10 bits...
Discord Pie
iOS Developer
Creo que mi HX850 soporta 12 bits. Pero no tengo HDMI 2.0. 
Dr_X
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Estos últimos días está cogiendo fuerza la noticia de que el Ultra HD Blu-ray será un formato region free, pero dado que no he podido averiguar quien ha confirmado eso (el dato lo publicó originalmente High Def Digest pero sin citar a la BDA ó alguien de la industria) yo no lo daría aún como 100% seguro.